SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey Pete, the way I described what went down in my situation might come across like I was Mr decisive and took no crap, but the truth is I was a mess. I put up with a lot of crap for the first month or so. I only told you what I eventually did. At first I tiptoed around, considered her feelings first, accepted blame, allowed her to maintain a "just friends" relationship with her AP to avoid being "controlling." I didn't want to "invade her privacy" by looking through her devices... I did the pick me dance.

No one is handed a guidebook on how to deal with infidelity when they get married. We all feel like fools and losers when it hits. Almost no one has a perfect response to this. It's so disorienting and devastating. Most of us are drowning in doubt and fear so we start reaching for and grabbing for anything that might resemble a floatation device.

It took some time for me to find my resolve and start taking action, and really, some of my wife's reactions were worse than your wife's when I found out what was going on. She blame shifted, argued, justified, talked shit about me to her friends, continued to keep secrets, and fought with me to remain "just friends" with the guy. I put up with it.

So don't feel bad and don't beat yourself up. This is very disorienting. Your whole world has been turned upside down. That's normal. And don't worry about your thread taking up space. There are plenty of 50 page threads here. If it gets that big, you just start a new one. I'd rather see someone have a huge thread than not ask questions and seek advice. Thats precisely what these forums are here for.

I guess I’m scared that if I find proof of continued contact that means I should walk away. I’d have to wouldn’t I?

I would say you have to be willing to walk away. There’s just no way to make someone stop having an affair. If there were, the playbook on that would be the pinned post at the top of this forum.

Just so you know, it’s really pretty common for WSs to break NC. Most people think of it like an addict having a relapse. But if she does this, then you’re still in infidelity. At that point, to get out of infidelity you have to take matters into your own hands and do like Pogre did.

Can I ask, did she say how her in person therapy went? Hopefully she sees it as valid and something she can use to work thru her issues.

One thing I don't see you discussing, although I may have missed it in your posts, is your first entry mentioned she felt pressured to marry you so as not to lose you. So does she truly want to be married to you? That may be as important a question as to why she cheated.

It seems like maybe she feels she lost out on other opportunities to be in this relationship. I'm sorry if that's too painful to consider but it's a question I would need answered if I were you and thinking about if you should stay with her.

Sorry again for the pain you are experiencing.

@pogre

Once again, your responses have been so helpful. I feel like you and I have handled our situations similarly and I appreciate your input immensely. Wish I could shake your hand and thank you face to face. Really, everyone here actually.

@letmebefrank

I think that’s the next step. I have to show that I’m willing to walk. Not just think it. We’re due for another big conversation soon. Just not right now, especially now that I’m in bed with a fever and have to work tomorrow.

@stevesn

We did talk about her therapy. She’s not terribly pleased so far but I keep encouraging her to stick with it. Must be painful to dig up everything from her past and discuss what she did.

We’ve talked some about her feeling pressured, and I think she’s come to grips with that while she felt surprised by my proposal she chose to be with me and chose to get married. I never said I’d leave if she had said no.

Well,

We had a bit of an argument yesterday. I asked her "if I checked our phone bill right now, would I see his number? Have you called him since you sent the no contact message?" She said no at first, and then I said "then you won't care if I check.." then she crumbled.

She had indeed called him again, I asked her why and she said she's struggled giving up the connection to him. I started grabbing boxes from our basement to pack my things, and she begged me not to. She said it's done with him now, she's going to send another message and be transparent. She's on her last strike, I'm only going to be even more vigilant. I doubt we take the trip for her birthday this weekend, or maybe she goes by herself to get away from me for a few days.

I'm feeling pretty crushed, but I guess my gut was right. This is the one time I hate being right.

The game changer for me was I was walking. At dday2 I told him I had no other choice left and I was D him.

I don’t know if he realized the impact but after 24 hours and the hard 180 and my refusal to engage, he understood I wasn’t backing down.

The good news was that a few hours earlier he ended his affair. So I found out z(from the OW) it was over. But it was a moot point because dday2 was more devastating (to me) than dday1 but I just handled it better.

However it did change our marriage. I stopped being a doormat and held him accountable for everything. How we were able to R is nothing short of a miracle.

We just passed 13 days from dday1 and I can say it was worth the effort. We are happily reconciled and I’m living my best life.

I recently saw someone describing how going through infidelity is like sitting on a pin cushion. You adjust, move, and get a little bit comfortable thinking you found a safe postiion then another pin pops out and pokes you.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this man. It's not that dissimilar to what I went through, but instead of calling lawyers you starting grabbing boxes to pack up. I don't know which would be more impactful, but I can say for my wife calling lawyers really drove the point home. "Oh shit... he's really going to do this..."

Those calls really started snapping my wife out of it, but it wasn't quite "over" yet. I did some snooping and found more hurtful things in the form of conversations with her friends. No contact was pretty shaky, complicated by the fact that they were still working together and she hadn't put in for a location transfer yet. He wasn't blocked yet. It was shortly after that I joined these forums and started applying advice I got here.

After many conversations and listening together to those books I suggested, she really started realizing just how badly her actions had hurt me and our marriage. She finally sent a definitive no contact message (not some wishy washy "working on my marriage" message, leaving a door open), blocked him on everything, and began real work on fixing the damage she'd done. It wasn't too long after that she began referring to him as a "dirtbag who hits on married women" and really started seeing him as the sleazebag he is. She hates him now.

I think you did a pretty job of sending her a message. Stick to your guns and don't believe a word she says. Don't get me wrong, words matter, but she just demonstrated to you that she's still fully willing to lie to you. Pay attention to her actions. Actions are everything right now.

This is completely up to you. I felt pretty shitty when I snooped through my wife's tablet, I get it, but looking back I had no other choice if I wanted the truth. She put me in a corner and I was desperate. It's pretty crappy that I had to go there to get the truth. In almost 27 years at that time I had never snooped through her stuff, but I had hard evidence she wasn't being honest with me.

Now I have all of her passcodes and unfettered access to all of her devices. She randomly offers to show me still to this day. I imagine it's a good feeling for her, a relief, knowing she has nothing to hide anymore. She's very open about her devices and conversations now. She always lets me know who she's talking to when she's texting or on the phone without me asking.

We’ll see what happens from here.

The chess player in me sees a few moves ahead:

1. She says she’s breaking it off with him entirely and definitively.

2. She says she’s doing #1, and asks for her own phone plan, which to me would be a bit suspicious. Also, if she’s changed her phone’s passcode that to me is a huge red flag. (Will ask about that today or tomorrow)

3. She doesn’t do #1 and I start packing.

and asks for her own phone plan, which to me would be a bit suspicious

Um, yeah, just a bit.

There’ve been cases of people having second "burner" phones as well. I think you should feel FULLY entitled and guilt-free for taking whatever measures you need to feel safe. If that means ‘snooping’ so be it. Or showing up unannounced at her work, or asking for passwords and logins. All fair game. She cheated.

Just as an anecdote: I didn’t marry the woman who cheated on me, I married the one I met after her. My wife and I know eachother’s password’s, always have. We actually share an app that stores all our millions of passwords. Anyway, my wife’s parents live quite far from us, and they don’t see the kids but twice a year. So ever since our first was born (17 years ago) she makes them a photo book as a Xmas present every year. When it’s time to make it, I just hand her my phone or iPad and she goes through my photos to find some that she might use. Also, I don’t like how she drives, so if we have a long trip I usually do most of the driving. If I’m busy at work, occasionally I’ll have her read and type up responses to emails. All I’m pointing out is, that’s how we are and we don’t have any massive breaches of trust. It’s not checking up on each other, it’s just we have nothing to hide. To me, checking her phone and stuff should be something you should have no qualms about.

2. She says she’s doing #1, and asks for her own phone plan, which to me would be a bit suspicious. Also, if she’s changed her phone’s passcode that to me is a huge red flag. (Will ask about that today or tomorrow)

Yes, asking for a separate phone plan is very suspicious. What possible purpose would that serve? It certainly doesn't exactly show an effort toward transparency. I'd want to know what her reasoning is for that. Also yes, changing her passcodes would be a big red flag.

Are you going to see the NC message? I got involved with the wording of ours.

Again, people with nothing it hide, hide nothing. Your marriage is in a serious trust crisis right now. She should be doing things to try to repair that. Not things that cast more doubt and suspicion.

I'm sorry you're going through this man. I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. I know how you feel.

Hey Pete, I'm a little confused. Has she asked for her own phone plan or are you predicting that she will?

She hasn’t done so, I’m just sort of predicting that? Or maybe I sort of expect it at some point?

I know whats app and signal calls/messages don’t appear on phone bills, so I’m just going to have to either collect more data/evidence when possible (should there be any) or maybe I have her call him and break it off entirely with me there listening.

My reco is to put chess aside; it's not relevant for R. It's relevant to D, but you haven't decided to D yet. Recovery from being betrayed is not a game; it's crucial to your real life. R - which I hope you realize is different from R - is not a game, either. And your recovery is yours to accomplish no matter what your W does.

I urge you to focus on yourself and what you want to do. Notice, also, what you're ready to do. Don't use an ultimatum until you're ready to impose sanctions.

Some WSes have trouble giving up their aps. There are cases in which the BS gave their WS more time than many people thought was realistic; sometimes it led to R, sometimes it led to D; sometimes it led the BS to doom themself to an unhappy life. But you get to - and only you can - decide how much time to give your W.

Continued contact is a big impediment to R, but if you're not ready to walk, forcing yourself to walk is iffy - you'll be too easy for your WS to suck back in.

The threat of D worked for The1stWife and Pogre, IMO, because they weren't threatening - they were doing. It will work for you, too, one way or another, if you just do, but not if you lodge and empty threat.

The more authentic you get, the more and faster you'll heal, IMO. Now is a time to become as genuine as you can in acting in your own best interests. That may look weak to an outsider, but healing means, from one viewpoint, using one's inner strength the way you choose to use it, irrespective of what others may think.

Have you looked into the 180? The best article on the 180 that I've seen is SerJr's: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/. I recommend checking it out if you haven't already done so.

She hasn’t done so, I’m just sort of predicting that? Or maybe I sort of expect it at some point?

Have you set any boundaries yet? Will there be any consequences for her breaking no contact, aside from watching you bring out an empty cardboard box?

I’m sorry OP, I know you’re hurting and paralyzed with fear, but if you want any hope whatsoever of saving this relationship you need to start acting firmly and decisively to ongoing disrespect.

Well, I'm pretty new here but I've been lurking on your thread for the entire duration. It's about 5 weeks since discovery and she did not confess, you caught her and she's still conducting her affair. She's struggling to give up the connection to him. She was "pressured" to accept your proposal.

Brother, you are the backup guy. She's looking for her soul mate. You ain't it.

In one of your posts, I think you mentioned the mind movies. They never go away. Mine are more than 35 years old. I know that in those 35 years that's she's been absolutely faithful. I don't even have proof of whatever she did before that.

We began as FWB, we both had other "friends." My good friend spent time in her apartment, which I could see from mine, with the curtains drawn. I was often the guy in there with the curtains drawn. She was freshly divorced and running wild. I knew both of them, him since 8th grade. There is no way they were just talking in there. I didn't ask back then. I had no claim. 4 years later, we were living together my friend had a key and anytime access to my home(s) and that continued into my relationship with my now wife. Dumb as that was. He was a sub sailor and lived in the barracks when not on patrol. The idea was for him to have a garage to work on his car, place to do laundry, etc. I was scheduled to go to sea for carrier quals. That friend dropped me off at the ship, I expected him to go back to the sub base, not drive 25 miles up to my home. Command gave us liberty for six hours before the ship sailed. I got a ride home and found his car there. They looked pretty surprised to see me walk in. Didn't catch them in the act but sus. They both deny EVER doing anything sexual, then or before. Not having the truth on their past makes me think that it went on longer than that. The denials, BTW came out of each of their mouths with the identical words. They planned it and rehearsed it. "We wouldn't do that to you." Well, if it ended when she and I started a real relationship, it wouldn't have been doing anything to me, would it? He got out of the Navy and moved to Washington (from San Diego.) I let my relationship with him go, because I don't trust them together. I still check her phone records for strange calls, maybe to him. I know or knew his number in WA. I called him once about 5 years ago just to revisit and see if he had a different story. Got the same words.

Almost four decades of relationship and I still have doubts and movies. Do you want that?

[This message edited by Onceasailor at 11:11 PM, Monday, July 6th]

Thank you everyone for weighing in. I needed that.

She knows that if there’s anything else, a speck, anything, an iota of him around I’m packing.

I showed her my boxes, I showed her paperwork. If she can’t break things off entirely I’m not giving her any more chances. I’ll move out and apply for divorce right away.

Now let’s see if she means it.